AILSA CHANG, HOST:
2024 has been Chappell Roan’s 12 months. The 26-year-old pop singer has been in all places out of your Instagram feed to “SNL” to pageant phases the world over, and he or she’s racked up billions of streams alongside the way in which.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “HOT TO GO!”)
CHAPPELL ROAN: (Singing) H-O-T-T-O-G-O, simply snap and clap and contact your toes. Increase your fingers, now body-roll. Dance it out, you are sizzling to go.
CHANG: However you could be much less acquainted with Chappell’s common cowriter and producer Daniel Nigro. He is nominated for producer of the 12 months on the Grammy Awards, based mostly on his work with Chappell and one other singer he is helped propel to celebrity standing, Olivia Rodrigo.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “VAMPIRE”)
OLIVIA RODRIGO: (Singing) The way in which you offered me for components as you sunk your tooth into me. Oh, bloodsucker, dream crusher, bleeding me dry, like a d*** vampire.
CHANG: Nigro produced each of Rodrigo’s albums, “Bitter” and “Guts.” And after I spoke to her final 12 months, she had this to say about him.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
RODRIGO: He was a extremely fantastic guiding mild all through this course of. And, you realize, clearly, he had been by way of this very distinctive scenario of this loopy, unprecedented “Bitter” success with me, so he may empathize and perceive what I used to be going by way of while additionally being a bit older and wiser than me and having the ability to information me. In order that undoubtedly helped.
CHANG: The ascent of Olivia Rodrigo and Chappell Roan into the pop star stratosphere has helped set up Nigro as the person with the Midas contact relating to making pop songs for a brand new era. After I caught up with him not too long ago, I requested him what it took to information Chappell to the place she is in the present day from once they first met manner again in 2018.
DANIEL NIGRO: After I met Chappell, she was 20, about to be 21, and he or she was all the time Chappell Roan. It had a really totally different aesthetic to it. It was undoubtedly, like, a bit bit darker and moodier within the music tone. And, principally, the primary music we ever wrote was this music referred to as “Love Me Anyway.”
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “LOVE ME ANYWAY”)
ROAN: (Singing) It is onerous to confess I used to be the one accountable.
NIGRO: After which it wasn’t till February of the following 12 months she got here in and he or she was like, I wish to write a music referred to as “Pink Pony Membership.” I bear in mind, like, form of taking a look at her like, what?
CHANG: (Laughter).
NIGRO: Like, you realize, like – ‘trigger when – should you simply hear the identify, “Pink Pony Membership,” out of context of listening to the music…
CHANG: Completely.
NIGRO: …And particularly on the time, when all of her music was actually darkish and moody…
CHANG: Proper.
NIGRO: …You realize, I used to be like – I used to be a bit bit, like, what?
CHANG: Is that ironic (laughter)?
NIGRO: Like, yeah, I used to be a bit bit confused as to what she meant. So she began explaining. She needed form of, like, this dancy (ph) music. I used to be excited ‘trigger – however on the similar time a bit bit, like, you need a dance music? So we began writing the music over a beat.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “PINK PONY CLUB”)
ROAN: (Singing) Black lights and a mirrored disco ball, each night time’s another excuse why I left all of it.
CHANG: OK, so the rhythm was first.
NIGRO: The rhythm was first. So we knew what it was going to really feel like when it was dancy. I bear in mind really feel – I – you – I get this sense – I’ve received this sense a few instances in my profession of, like, whenever you write a music that is so daring your physique, like, begins to offer you these actually – for me personally, like, it provides me these, like, bizarre combined alerts that – ‘trigger you are like, you begin to prefer it a lot, and then you definitely truly, like, really feel prefer it’s particular. However then you definitely really feel like, oh, are individuals going to grasp this? This does really feel actually particular, so I hope that individuals perceive it.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “PINK PONY CLUB”)
ROAN: (Singing) Pink Pony Membership. I will carry on dancing on the Pink Pony Membership. I will carry on dancing down in West Hollywood.
CHANG: So whenever you have been writing “Pink Pony Membership” and also you have been feeling that ambivalence, do you know on the time, like, that is going to be a success?
NIGRO: No, no. So on the time, I used to be – ‘trigger – so I assume that is going to your query form of about, like…
CHANG: How she’s developed.
NIGRO: …How she’s developed. And I really feel like that was the second, to me, was like this completely encapsulates her persona, which might be each side of being tremendous euphoric after which additionally being, like, on the sadder facet of the musical spectrum, you realize?
CHANG: I like listening to the way in which you interpret the artist’s voice. Like, the way in which you are like, oh, this music, “Pink Pony Membership,” it truly much more encapsulated who Chappell is. And the factor I wish to perceive about you is the way you do assist artists hear their very own voices as they’re working with you as a result of you’re a decade-and-a-half older than both Chappell or Olivia. You are a person. Does that age and gender hole ever get in the way in which whenever you’re serving to them deliver their visions to life? I like the face you simply made. It was like, ugh (laughter).
NIGRO: No, no, I do not assume so. I believe that that is – I believe – I really feel prefer it’s nearly, like, a greater query to ask them in a sure manner, like, ‘trigger I do not really feel it. I really feel like…
CHANG: You do not really feel that hole?
NIGRO: I really feel just like the – I imply, like, even, like, should you’re speaking about, like, Olivia going by way of sure issues like…
CHANG: Love.
NIGRO: …Easy as a breakup.
CHANG: Yeah.
NIGRO: I performed in an emo band, you realize? Like, I used to be an emotional, like, 20-year-old at one level. So, like, asking me if I can relate to these emotions, after all I can, you realize?
CHANG: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’m so curious, although, like, whenever you’re working with an artist like Chappell, have been there any – ever any disagreement as to the path a music ought to go? And who wins when there’s a disagreement?
NIGRO: We – I believe we get to share wins. I am going to provide you with an instance of each. So in “Pink Pony Membership,” after I first made the demo of the music, the place the guitar solo is I had a synth solo. Like, I actually was simply, like, me taking part in the Juno-60, like, doing a solo on the synth. After which I despatched it to her, and I used to be actually enthusiastic about it. She’s like, no, it ought to be a guitar solo. And I used to be like, a guitar solo? And I bear in mind, like, at first being like, a guitar solo? Like, who does guitar solos, you realize? Like…
CHANG: Lots of people do guitar solos.
NIGRO: And I used to be like, OK. And I used to be like, OK, certain, like, I am going to attempt a guitar solo.
(SOUNDBITE OF CHAPPELL ROAN SONG, “PINK PONY CLUB”)
NIGRO: That was a second the place, like, I bear in mind, like, at first being like, huh? Like, why does she need a guitar solo right here, you realize?
CHANG: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. However you give room for her to be proper, and then you definitely experiment.
NIGRO: Sure. Experiment, yeah. After which she let me win on “Pink Wine Supernova” as a result of the rhythm is (imitating musical rhythm).
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “RED WINE SUPERNOVA”)
ROAN: (Singing) She was a playboy, Brigitte Bardot.
NIGRO: I used to be simply pushing for it to be, like, so excessive. Like, she did not need it to be excessive. And he or she, like – and I bear in mind having a second of, we have been similar to – I used to be like, simply go along with me on it – you realize? – and, like, she form of was like, OK, and we, like, went full camp, you realize?
CHANG: Yeah.
NIGRO: And I believe that was a giant…
CHANG: And also you offered her.
NIGRO: And I offered her on, like, going excessive. And I bear in mind she – after we lastly, like, laid down the vocals for the music, with, like, the let’s decide it up now, and, like, similar to the overt campiness of it…
CHANG: Proper, proper.
NIGRO: …That she was like, OK, that is superior.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “RED WINE SUPERNOVA”)
ROAN: (Singing) OK, y’all, let’s decide it up now. I do not care that you are a stoner. Pink wine supernova, fall proper into me.
CHANG: I imply, that is the enjoyment of collaboration…
NIGRO: Yeah.
CHANG: …You stretch one another. You make one another develop…
NIGRO: Yeah.
CHANG: …And you are taking dangers since you belief the opposite individual…
NIGRO: Sure.
CHANG: …And make one thing cool.
NIGRO: I believe that is the necessary half, like, is like, no, it’s important to pay attention to one another. After which on the finish of the day it is like, OK, nice. You realize what? You have been proper.
CHANG: Yeah.
NIGRO: Like, you – I am unable to imagine that I did not hear this earlier than, yeah.
CHANG: That is so cool. You belief one another’s instinct.
NIGRO: Yeah.
CHANG: I believe that is nice. Producer Dan Nigro. He is up for producer of the 12 months at this 12 months’s Grammy Awards. Good luck, babe.
NIGRO: Good luck, babe (laughter).
CHANG: Sorry, I needed to (laughter). Thanks a lot for coming to go to me at NPR West. This was so terrific to be speaking to you.
NIGRO: Thanks. Thanks, I admire it.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “GOOD LUCK, BABE!”)
ROAN: (Singing) …I name child. You possibly can kiss 100 boys in bars, shoot one other shot, attempt to cease the sensation. You possibly can say it is simply the way in which you’re, make a brand new excuse, one other silly cause.
Copyright © 2024 NPR. All rights reserved. Go to our web site phrases of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for additional info.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This textual content will not be in its closing kind and could also be up to date or revised sooner or later. Accuracy and availability could differ. The authoritative report of NPR’s programming is the audio report.